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Nearly a week ago I reported the account toot.wales/@Lyn_Samuel because they use Gab and Parler [1] and have already begun complaining about the "woke left" and "cancel culture". Their Gab account contains white supremacy apologism / justification [2].

Nothing appears to have been done by the moderators and I have not received any response to my report. Why are the toot.wales moderators welcoming the far-right onto our site?

[1] toot.wales/@Lyn_Samuel/1057429
[2] gab.com/Lyn_Samuel

@welshpixie We can hope. I've still had nothing from the moderators though, so who knows. That I even have to point this out to them really tells you where they stand :/

@pal I wrote and rewrote the response a few times, but in truth it says nothing I haven't already said before. Your report was reviewed, and the Community Guidelines were reviewed. In addition, to be sure of ourselves, the rest of the accounts toots were also reviewed.

Mastodon contains no option for us to send back our findings to you. If you would like this functionality, please submit your request to the developer team.

blogs.toot.wales/toot/communit contains the relevant thought process.

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@pal Some accounts are borderline. We monitor them. But we will not knee-jerk, thought police shut down anyone who might, may, or probably will contravene our Community Guidelines -until- they contravene our Community Guidelines.

I respectfully point you to Guideline #4.

Toot.Wales will serve as an example of civil discourse in the manner set out by our Guidelines. We are not a bubble. We must lead by example if we want change in the world. This is our mission.

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@jaz meh. that's just a long winded way of saying you support having a white supremacist on your instance. i understand you're trying to follow policy you've set out and what have you, but at the end of the day if your policy and principles means you're letting a white supremacist account stay on tootwales, you're doing a really poor job of creating a decent community and a poor job of moderation.

@jaz if you want to lead by example, maybe don't support white supremacy...

@jaz let me put it this way - i don't think you're intentionally trying to do a bad job. i think you do care about tootwales. but you're evidently limited by your own biases and so can't see that allowing people who support white supremacy onto the instance is not a borderline case to be civilly tolerated, it's something you should just get rid of immediately. i doubt i am going to be able to explain to you why you're wrong to allow this, because we're evidently operating with different values

@jaz on two occasions now you've ignored members' comments on accounts that should be suspended, favouring instead some concept of freedom that doesn't really interact with reality. if you want tootwales to be a welcoming place, you need to put the work in and actually remove bad actors rather than permit people on your instance to spread hateful nonsense. why do you think i know more active welsh people on here who do not use toot cymru than are using this- a welsh instance?

@pal there are two responses to the toot in question: toot.wales/@Lyn_Samuel/1057429

One makes use of purpose-built user-driven functionality, and reflects my values in how I think we should treat people who want to create incendiary, divisive conversation; the other is aggressive and harrassing.

It is fine and noble for us to differ in our approach to how to conduct and moderate a speech platform. We are a Venn diagram of seven billion circles, we cannot all intersect.

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@pal I have taken the time and money to lay out my vision and find others who share it. You are free to enter, browse, stay, enjoy.

This conversation is as much part of the experiment as is quietly ignoring and maybe educating people with opinions we don't like.

To build civil discourse takes patience and a desire to improve. These I can guarantee. The other things you need from me, you might not find.

I think it's OK to find out I'm wrong, or you're wrong, or we're both a little bit right.

@jaz

> One makes use of purpose-built user-driven functionality, and reflects my values in how I think we should treat people who want to create incendiary, divisive conversation; the other is aggressive and harrassing.

i agree that my response was not remotely welcoming, that was after all the intent. regardless, your statement here that white supremacy is only "divisive" is simply continuing to confirm to me that you don't grasp why white supremacy should be removed from social media

@jaz white supremacy isn't something "divisive" that must be tolerated and brought to a discussion table to talk about "both sides", that's clearly bullshit and retraumatises victims, gives white supremacists a chance to spout their toxic nonsense, and legitimises their views. if you want to operate a space that's designed in part to rehabilitate white supremacists, then make that clear and then put in the work to educate them. that's not what's going on here though.

@jaz you have the privilege of being able to "quietly ignore" white supremacists because you're white. this is a privilege and does not reflect the majority of the human population's experience with toxic whiteness

@jaz there's nothing "noble" about viewing the support of white supremacy as acceptable or something that should be tolerated. it is commendable to be open to learning however, and as you seem to be saying thay you're willing to listen and adapt and take criticisms on board, i would advise you learn about intersectionality, how whiteness operates, how to decenter whiteness, and similarly themed topics.

@jaz i'm afraid i personally am not able to provide resources here, but i can put you in touch with people who will have good suggestions for where to start if it's something you want to explore.

@pal @jaz The dude's using all the red flags of alt-right nazi-adjacent talk over on his Gab account, and he's using your instance to point people to that account, and starting to use the same rhetoric on toot.wales. You said yourself he'll probably eventually break your CoC. You've already found out who he is, you're just waiting for him to do it in your space, and when he does, the people who are trusting you to protect them from seeing Nazi content, as per your CoC, will have already seen it.

@welshpixie @pal on the date of the first report, there was no such content on the remote account. I have a new report - today - that will be reviewed and responded to. It is appropriate, helpful, and will be logged.

As I've said every time this comes up, file a report. That is why the function exists. It keeps the moderators honest. We will not suspend based off a conversation stream. I'm fine having the conversation, but warnings, freezes and suspensions come from reports.

@jaz @welshpixie none of this is particularly relevant. you're hiding behind bureaucracy rather than dealing with the issue. your policies have already failed if they did not catch the account the first time around, since the signs that the account is unwelcome are so blatantly clear. it's not useful to stick to your invented bureaucracy in the belief it is the right way to operate, because it's already proven flawed

@jaz @pal Hi Jaz, quick question: how do the Black users of toot.wales feel about this approach to moderating?

@jaz @pal there's no "intersecting" about it. you're letting people know that your platform welcomes white supremacists, which means it's a hostile environment for many other users by default. there can be no "civil discourse" with people whose belief system demands that others be subjugated or killed. if toot.wales won't ban white supremacists, others will have to defederate to ensure their users aren't exposed to white supremacists. there's a reason most mainstream instances ban them on sight.

@jaz @pal
yo, that guy's a gab user. nothing "borderline" about it. this is just plain old complacency and puts people at risk.

cc @admin this doesn't alter what was said by jaz, obviously, but it is a positive development

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